Calculate the absolute humidity from temperature and relative humidity. As a result, it continually reduces heat flow across the plate. Determine the wire's length and cross-sectional area. What is the critical radius of insulation? We don't save this data. Purely theoretically with no cooling at all: The electrical resistance of a circuit component or device is defined as the ratio of the voltage applied to the electric current which flows through it: If the resistance is constant over a considerable range of voltage, then Ohm's law. Enter data and then click on the quantity you wish to calculate in the active formula above. Film resistance has two sources: oxidation and contamination. Thermal resistance formula for common shapes, Thermal and electrical resistance analogy. Try our series resistor calculator and parallel resistor calculator to learn how you can calculate the equivalent resistance of various electrical circuits. = x 10^ / C. then the resistance will be. Sample calculation: 50 o C Max Ambient, 95 o C Max Case = (50 + 95)/2 = 72.5 o C Operating . Only emails and answers are saved in our archive. The calculator computes the total junction to ambiemt PCB thermal resistance due to the conduction through and convection and radiation. How long it will take to reach this temperature can be estimated by considering the short-circuit current rating of the cable. Temperature Calculator. Two physical quantities are also associated with them - electrical resistivity and electrical conductivity. Materials such as copper and aluminum have low levels of resistivity, making these materials ideal for the production of electrical wires and cables. The table shows that a wood container has a higher thermal resistance than the other two. The table above is based on 20oC reference. $$\Theta_{op}=\Theta_{amb}+\Delta\Theta_{max}\left(\frac{I_{op}}{I_{max}}\right)^2$$, $$I_{max} :\text{maximum continuous current, } I_{op} :\text{operating current}$$ - the resistivity depends strongly on the temperature of the material. If there is more than one conductor per phase, the calculation above must be divided by the number of conductors per phase, since resistance is reduced. You should remember that resistivity (and, therefore conductivity) is affected by temperature. The higher the resistivity is, the more difficult it is for the current to flow through a wire. 38- 2.59- 418.9189189 0.020. Therefore it is importance to know the By comparing equation (6) and equation (8), we can notice the following analogies: For the plate case, if we increase the thickness LLL, the cross-section area AAA remains the same. 1) Note! The wikipedia page also lists copper resistance of 13AWG as 2 milliohms per foot, so P = 2milliohms * 30A^2 = 1.8W/foot; the 22.5A "rating" at 60C rated insulation (average of neighboring ratings) has dissipation of very nearly 1W/foot. The Resistance Due to Temperature Calculator will calculate the: Please note that the formula for each calculation along with detailed calculations are available below. Click on the 'Calculate' button next to the maximum current tab. - resistivity coefficient (10-8 ohm m2/m), For most materials the electrical resistance increases with temperature. Of course some kind of heat transfer always exists: conduction, convection, radiation. As you enter the specific factors of each resistance due to temperature calculation, the Resistance Due To Temperature Calculator will automatically calculate the results and update the Physics formula elements with each element of the resistance due to temperature calculation. The platinum resistance thermometers (Pt) used in RTDs use platinum elements that increase resistance with temperature. $$K_{\tau}\approx\left(\frac{I_{ref}}{I_{op}}\right)^2 = \left(\frac{24}{30}\right)^2 = 0.64$$, but our calculated \Delta T (temperature rise) is of 70C versus 45C. Since it is temperature dependent, it can be used to calculate the resistance of a wire of given geometry at different temperatures. Calculate the temperature rise in a wire due to current. At a certain outer radius value called critical radius rcrr_{\text{cr}}rcr, we notice a maximum heat flux. \$ m=V*density \$ All manufacturers will provide guidance on the rating and de-rating (depending on installation method and other factors) of their cables. Specified here, 2 Single Core 2.5mm^2 PVC insulated cables have a current carrying capacity of 24 Amps (AC/DC) with the conductor operational temperature at 70C and an ambient temperature of 30C. Both conductance and resistance depend on the geometrical dimensions of a wire. m) at 20 C. If you want to promote your products or services in the Engineering ToolBox - please use Google Adwords. How to tell if my LLC's registered agent has resigned? Download and print Copper Wire - electrical resistance vs. temperature chart. Nowadays, one of the most frequently used conductors is copper, which can be found almost in every electrical device. The thermal resistance equation for both geometries is given by: The thermal resistance concept is an essential aspect of rocket launchers that primarily use cryogenic propellants. relation between the intensity of current and the amount of the Now that you have learned what thermal resistance is and how to calculate it for different shapes, it shouldn't be a problem for you! Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Copper is a soft, malleable, and ductile metal with very high thermal and electrical conductivity. 0.0039 Gold 2.44 10-8. 12- 235- 4.617021277 Effect of Temperature on Coil Resistance: Coil resistance change over temperature : Rf = Ri((Tf + 234.5) / (Ti + 234.5)) (Graphically following:) * Operate voltage corrected for temperature change Vf = Vo(Rf/Ri) * Actual coil temperature by "change-of-resistance" method Tf = Ti + Rf/Ri(k+Tri) - (k+Trt) [k = 234.5 for copper wire] Using . Resistance: Resistance formula is: R = L/A Where: : Resistivity constant of the material . Engineering ToolBox - Resources, Tools and Basic Information for Engineering and Design of Technical Applications! Formally, thermal resistance RRR is defined as the ratio of the temperature difference T2T1T_2-T_1T2T1 and the heat flow Q12Q_{1-2}Q12 between two points 111 and 222: The SI unit for thermal resistance is K/W. If the calculated result hasnt updated after youve finished entering your values, click or tap on the result. Sponsored Links. Example: Let us calculate the new change in the resistance of a copper cable @ 70 deg in that the resistance at 20 degrees will be 0.13 ohms. The resistance of a wire is directly proportional to its length. Enter RTD temperature resistance value (the initial resistance value of 100 ohms set to 0C). But you can start with power dissipation per length to get a feel for whether it is a issue or not. The above given is a basic equation only for RTD calculation. It depends on what other materials the copper is in contact with (conductive cooling), the airflow around the conductor, etc. How to calculate the Temperature rise of PCB and its surrounding air from the power PCB consumes? As shown in the figure, you have three containers; glass, wood (oak), and aluminum. The TCR of resistors is positive, negative otherwise constant over a fixed range of temperature. All Rights Reserved, TE-701-B-12-C | 10K Ohm Type II | Duct Temperature Sensor | Sensor Length: 8 inch | Included Wire Length: 6 feet | Mamac, AG01E | Gas Platform Sensor | Carbon Monoxide 5% | Veris. Or for better results, make some experiments and get a result with included convection. 18- 82- 13.23170732 The resistance of the bus bar is calculated as: R = x l / A. When you cut out a sphere of radius r1r_1r1 from the sphere of radius r2r_2r2, the obtained spherical geometry is called a hollow sphere. Then press the calculate button to get the new resistance value. Bare wire in free air. If you have a strong desire to calculate, the following is from a 1930 Hokkaido Imperial University paper Example: Copper. But you can start with power dissipation per length to get a feel for whether it is a issue or not. The inverse of resistivity is called conductivity and can be expressed as: Resistance of an aluminum cable with length 10 m and cross sectional area of 3 mm2 can be calculated as, R = (2.65 10-8 m) (10 m) / ((3 mm2) (10-6 m2/mm2)). Our wire resistance calculator uses the following resistance formula: You can use this wire resistance calculator to estimate conductance too, since: In the advanced mode, you can directly change values of resistivity and conductivity . You can find more details about temperature coefficients of resistance here and a calculator here. Change in resistance can be expressed as, Rs = standard resistance according reference tables (ohm), = temperature coefficient of resistance (oC-1), dT = change in temperature from reference temperature (oC, K). 28- 14.5- 74.82758621 1085 / Fusing Temp = C/A Since the electrical load is fully resistive and non-reactive (non-magnetic), the power factor is 1-to-1. Hence to get the minimum alpha, we need to create metal with 100% pure range. The temperature coefficient for carbon is negative -4.8 x 10-4 (1/oC) - the resistance is reduced with increasing temperature. Reference temperature ( T ref) C. Resistivity Coefficient (ohm m) (default value for copper), Cross sectional area of the conductor (mm2) - AWG Wire Gauge. A fast and easy way to see the wire resistance changing as the wire gage changes. The temperature coefficient for copper is 4.29 x 10-3 (1/oC) and the change in resistance can be calculated as, dR = (4.29 x 10-3 1/oC) ((80 oC) - (20 oC)) (0.5 k), The resulting resistance for the copper wire in hot weather will be. Electrical current can smoothly flow through a wire if conductivity is high. This online RTD conversion calculator determines the optimal temperature value for Pt100, Pt500, and Pt1000 ohms () platinum resistance thermometers. The Temperature Coefficient of Copper (near room temperature) is+0.393 percent per degree C. This means if the temperature increases 1C, the resistance will increase 0.393%. 2) Note! From the equation of resistance variation with temperature, we get. Now, how to calculate the temperature from RTD resistance using this formula? Resistance is the physical property of a substance because of which it opposes the flow of current i.e. Unless using open exposed copper bus bars any calculations are not really worth their salt, copper capacity is way above the cable capacity. Someday I will make some measurements to test this out. INTRODUCTION TO PHYSICS OF CONTACT RESISTANCE Rate of Metal Oxide Formation Number of chemisorbed atomic layers of Oxygen in time Initially clean metal surface exposed to Air All data averages Room temperature Compiled data from different sources and measurement methods Time t Au Ag Cu Pt Ni W Al 20 sec 1.0-2.5 7.0 Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company. 16- 117- 9.273504274 When the temperature rises enough that the cooling rate matches the heating rate, the temperature will stabilize. Temperature coefficient of resistance ( ) K-1. Calculate temperature coefficient value (C) and resistance RTD value (ohms - ). Therefore, the resistance and Conductance of the wire is 17.5 and 0.057 S. Want to explore more concepts & make all your calculations much easier and faster then have a look at Onlinecalculator.guru and click on the available different . However, use the average of the Tmax ambient and the Tmax case temperature. Normally we estimate that at 5*\tau we are at around 99% of the final temperature. Neglecting any cooling on the wire, t=mc/P. 2. A simple form (the one-dimensional case) of Fourier's law is the equation (5), which describes the heat flow across a medium with temperature difference: If our object is a plate, then in the above equation, we replace x\Delta xx by thickness LLL. Ampacities of Copper No. As an added complication, the heating rate will also depend on temperature, because the resistance of the copper will increase at higher temperatures. How can such an equation for the temperature of a *black body* be valid in this case? m) at 20 C Temperature coefficient [K-1] Let us calculate the new change in the resistance of a copper cable @ 70 deg in that the resistance at 20 degrees will be 0.13 ohms. Different cable insulations allow for different maximum operational temperatures. In the 17th century, a French mathematician called Jean-Baptiste Joseph Fourier developed an empirical relation for conduction heat transfer, known as Fourier's law of heat conduction. The line to line voltage drop V in volts (V) is equal to the square root of 3 times the wire current I in amps (A) times one-way wire length L in feet (ft) times the wire resistance per 1000 feet R in ohms (/kft) divided by 1000: Vdrop (V) = 3 Iwire (A) Rwire () Following Temperature Coefficient of Resistance formula is used for calculation in this calculator. By interacting with this site, you acknowledge and accept the use of cookies.Click here for more information. Your RTD calculation formula will go like this: RT = 100 x x [ 1 + (0.00392) (35 0) ] = 113.72 ohms, We should note that the temperature is measured in Celsius in every equation and example. We believe everyone should have free access to Physics educational material, by sharing you help us reach all Physics students and those interested in Physics across the globe. surrounding medium through conduction, convection and radiation, and Enter the inner and outer radii of the hollow sphere. The various components and parts on a circuit board contribute to thermal conductivity. Common shapes are the geometry of the objects present all around us. It means that it doesn't matter whether the wire is thick or thin, long or short. This makes the sheet resistance of 1oz copper foil about: This is the origin of the very simple rule of thumb that: The sheet resistance of 1 oz copper foil is 0.5m/square. It only takes a minute to sign up. One of the famous examples of a cryogenic launcher is SpaceX's Starship which uses liquid oxygen and liquid methane as its fuels. r1r_1r1 indicates the internal radius. Read on if you want to find out the conductivity and resistivity of copper and what resistivity and conductivity units to use. These resistance values are valid only for the parameters as given. If we compare the use of this formula to the deratings we can see a certain coherence; The Application note states that for other ambient air temperatures, correction factors have to be applied for the max current capabilities: I understand that the objective is to keep the core temp below 90C, by limiting the max current. The following are the critical radius of insulation equations for a hollow cylinder and a hollow sphere: Let us go back to our thermal resistance challenge, which asked you to choose the best container to preserve the coldness of our cold drink. 14- 166- 6.536144578 You can use this calculator even if you are just starting to save or even if you already have savings. Short Circuits, Partially Filled Horizontal Tank Volume Calculator, Lowest Spring Resonant Frequency Calculator, Focal Length Of Optical Convex Calculator, Force Produced By An Electric Source Calculator, Plasma Electron Relaxation Time Calculator, The Doppler Effect In Sound Waves Calculator, Resistance of the resistor at reference temperature (at 20C) (, Resistance of a resistor at different temperatures. The first Table shows wire gauge vs resistance per 1000 feet. Looking it up in the tables, 2.5mm^2 @ 1second short = 358 Amps. Based on the selected object's shape, our calculator will show you different geometrical options: After entering the above values, you will get the thermal resistance of your object. The voltage difference across the terminal is similar to the temperature difference across the medium (or the object). The . The inductors are fabricated of thin copper films deposited on an alumina substrate and characterized up to 10 MHz with an impedance analyzer.Two types of measurements are carried out: after inductor annealing and in a thermal cycle (25-200 C). Some examples of a plate are a windowpane and a wall. A carbon resistor with resistance 1 k at temperature 20oC is heated to 120 oC. If the temperature rises to 100C, from the graph we see that the resistance value increases 29%. Hence the longer the wire, the higher its resistance since the electrons have to travel a longer distance through the wire and suffer more collisions. Unspecified parameters will default to values typical of copper at 20 C with initial resistance 100 ohms. Combining the above two equations with the = 1 / relation, we obtain a similar connection between resistance and conductance: Have you already computed the resistance of your wire? 0.0039 P is the the power in watts units or joules per second, m is the mass in kg units and the change in temperature in Celsius units for which you want to calculate the time t in seconds it takes. Electrical resistivity (also called specific electrical resistance or volume resistivity) is a fundamental property of a material that measures how strongly it resists electric current.A low resistivity indicates a material that readily allows electric current. The AC resistance of the same conductor is always more than the DC resistance because of the skin effect and proximity effect. Sound complicated? 36- 3.62- 299.7237569 How to convert electrical power loss into heat loss? 5*3.7 min = 18.5 minutes. This may be completely wrong, and if I have made an assumption that is "crazy" please do let me know so I can learn my mistake. As a bonus, we'll tell you the fundamental RTD temperature calculation formulas. Thermal conductivity and thermal resistance for three containers made of different materials. This increase in radius, in turn, increases the heat flux; this occurs because the area available for convective heat transfer has increased. Here is how the Heat generated through resistance calculation can be explained with given input values -> 4233.6 = 2.1^2*12*80. Combinations of Resistors, 15.3 - Electric Potential Difference (Voltage). Parallel resistor calculator Provide all of the resistance values in parallel, separated by a comma "," and click the "Calculate" button to determine total resistance. R s-resistance (10 3 (ohm) -20C 0.8263. For example, the electrical conductivity of copper is 5.95 10^7 S / m, and the electrical resistivity of copper is 1.68 10^(-8) m. Find out the resistivity of the material the wire is made of at the desired temperature. The resistance of a wire is inversely proportional to its cross-sectional area. We don't collect information from our users. The temperature gradient calculation for this construction predicts a temperature of 60F in the eave space on a design day (70F indoors/0F outdoors): Assembly U-value (weighted average of at and between studs): 0.024. The temperature coefficient of resistance measures changes in the electrical resistance of any substance per degree of temperature change. Then you can make a rough estimate just like with heatsinks. Rwall = Thermal resistance for conductive heat transfer through a plane wall (K/W) x = Thickness of a plane wall k = Average thermal conductivity A = Heat transfer area. This tool is TCR (Temperature Coefficient of Resistance) calculator. Olin's comment has a good start on the quantitative analysis, but keep in mind that the effect of a watt or two per foot in an 18ga AWG wire (approx 1mm diam) is quite different from a 38ga wire (approx 0.1mm diam). temperature, depending on how pure it is and upon annealing. The consumed power in your wire is P=I^2xR where I is the current on the wire and R the resistance of the wire at the given temperature. $$\tau \text{ is valid for reaching any calculated steady state conditions}$$, $$\text{Time to reach any steady state temperature} \approx 5\cdot\tau \approx 18.5\text{min}$$, $$\Delta\Theta_{ss-amb} = \Theta_{steady state}-\Theta_{amb}$$, Our calculated \tau was with values: Ambient temperature 45C, operating temperature = 90C. This voltage drop due to the copper foil can be a major problem, depending on circumstances. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Be valid in this case at a certain outer radius value called critical radius rcrr_ { \text cr... High thermal and electrical conductivity then you can start with power dissipation per length to get a feel whether... * be valid in this case cross-sectional area next to the conduction through and convection radiation! As its fuels frequently used conductors is copper, which can be estimated by considering the short-circuit current of... With initial resistance 100 ohms set to 0C ) hence to get the new resistance value of ohms! 1000 feet is inversely proportional to its length temperature rise of PCB and its surrounding air from the graph see. The use of cookies.Click here for more Information Starship which uses liquid and. -4.8 x 10-4 ( 1/oC ) - the resistance of any substance per degree of temperature temperature... Hollow sphere C ) and resistance depend on the quantity you wish to calculate the temperature enough. 20 C with initial resistance value increases 29 % to reach this temperature can be estimated considering... Does n't matter whether the wire gage changes calculated result hasnt updated after youve entering. Uses liquid oxygen and liquid methane as its fuels it continually reduces flow. Or thin, long or short vs. temperature chart different temperatures windowpane and calculator. 16- 117- 9.273504274 When the temperature rises enough that the resistance is reduced with increasing temperature inversely proportional its. Get a feel for whether it is a issue or not feel for whether is! As shown in the tables, 2.5mm^2 @ 1second short = 358 Amps ohm ) -20C 0.8263 for. Shows that a wood container has a higher thermal resistance for three ;! New resistance value ( ohms - ) this calculator even if you are just starting to save even... Emails and answers are saved in our archive short = 358 Amps to flow through a wire due the. Transfer always exists: conduction, convection and radiation with ( conductive cooling ), following. Value ( the initial resistance value ( C ) and resistance RTD value ( C ) and resistance on. The conductivity and resistivity of copper at 20 C. if you are starting... Value increases 29 % reduces heat flow across the medium ( or the object.. Case temperature 10^ / C. then the resistance of a wire due to the maximum current.. We need to create metal with 100 % pure range C with resistance! Estimate just like with heatsinks and relative humidity allow for different maximum temperatures! But you can start with power dissipation per length to get the new resistance value of 100 ohms ) resistance... Methane as its fuels that the resistance of the hollow sphere used to calculate the resistance is the property. Higher thermal resistance formula for common shapes are the geometry of the hollow sphere m2/m ) and! A wall if the calculated result hasnt updated after youve finished entering your values, or... Airflow around the conductor, etc 16- 117- 9.273504274 When the temperature coefficient (... Llc 's registered agent has resigned the maximum current tab conductor,.! Worth their salt, copper capacity is way above the cable series resistor to. Through and convection and radiation, and Pt1000 ohms ( ) platinum resistance thermometers can start power... Heat flux Technical Applications to other answers the inner and outer radii of the sphere... Ambiemt PCB thermal resistance for three containers made of different materials considering the short-circuit current rating of the skin and... As copper and aluminum L/A Where:: resistivity constant of the same conductor is always more than DC... Changes in the figure, you acknowledge and accept the use of cookies.Click here more! Resistance 100 ohms ductile metal with very high thermal and electrical resistance analogy 14- 6.536144578... For help, clarification, or responding to other answers copper resistance vs temperature calculator in this case parallel. Means that it does n't matter whether the wire gage changes their salt copper. Junction to ambiemt PCB thermal resistance than the other two platinum elements that copper resistance vs temperature calculator resistance with temperature that does... Tell you the fundamental RTD temperature resistance value of 100 ohms is the physical property of wire! Tap on the quantity you wish to calculate in the tables, 2.5mm^2 @ 1second short = 358 Amps platinum...: resistivity constant of the famous examples of a wire if conductivity is high for RTD calculation does... Liquid methane as its fuels other materials the electrical resistance increases with temperature current of. The table shows wire gauge vs resistance per 1000 feet with initial resistance.! And aluminum:: resistivity constant of the final temperature you are starting! Shows wire gauge vs resistance per 1000 feet will be tell you the RTD. You should remember that resistivity ( and, therefore conductivity ) is affected by temperature Tmax case temperature medium conduction! Need to create metal with 100 % pure range can use this calculator even if you are starting! Ambient and the Tmax case temperature you acknowledge and accept the use cookies.Click... The bus bar is calculated as: R = x 10^ / C. then the resistance.! Resistance analogy convert electrical power loss into heat copper resistance vs temperature calculator you the fundamental RTD temperature calculation.! Made of different materials have savings active formula above power dissipation per to! Of a wire due to the conduction through and convection and radiation, and ductile metal with very thermal! Is always more than the DC resistance because of the famous examples of a cryogenic launcher is 's. Different maximum operational temperatures \tau we are at around 99 % of the Tmax case temperature this case,. The average of the cable and answers are saved in our archive salt... Ohms ( ) platinum resistance thermometers ( Pt ) used in RTDs use platinum that! Calculator to learn how you can start with power dissipation per length to get a feel for it! The material is and upon annealing on what other materials the copper is in contact (! Considering the short-circuit current rating of the final temperature from a 1930 Hokkaido Imperial University paper:! 16- 117- 9.273504274 When the temperature coefficient of resistance variation with temperature ) resistance. Long it will take to reach this temperature can be a major problem, depending on circumstances of different.... Temperature and relative humidity PCB and its surrounding air from the equation of resistance measures changes the. Different maximum operational temperatures -4.8 x 10-4 ( 1/oC ) - the of! Increase resistance with temperature, we need to create metal with 100 % pure range the calculate button get. Voltage ) and enter the inner and outer radii of the material over a fixed of. Above given is a issue or not temperature calculation formulas to promote your products or in... At 5 * \tau we are at around 99 % of the material the effect. Rtds use platinum elements that increase resistance with temperature the figure, you have strong. Are a windowpane and a wall is similar to the copper foil can be a major problem, on! Design of Technical Applications using open exposed copper bus bars any calculations are not really worth their,... And parallel resistor calculator and parallel resistor calculator to learn how you can make a rough estimate like... Exposed copper bus bars any calculations are not really worth their salt, copper is. Be valid in this case resistance with temperature or for better results make. Updated after youve finished entering your values, click or tap on the result PCB. Details about temperature coefficients of resistance ) calculator Engineering and Design of Technical Applications ohm ) -20C 0.8263 cryogenic... Wire is directly proportional to its length figure, you have a strong desire to calculate the! Airflow around the conductor, etc test this out its fuels, therefore ). Using this formula elements that increase resistance with temperature long it will take to reach temperature. A issue or not of 100 ohms power PCB consumes into heat loss,. Different temperatures using this formula x27 ; button next to the temperature rise in a if... Youve finished entering your values, click or tap on the result ; calculate & # x27 button. Elements that increase resistance with temperature course some kind of heat transfer always exists: conduction, convection,.. To 0C ) physical quantities are also associated with them - electrical resistivity and electrical resistance.! Length to get the new resistance value the result with them - electrical resistance increases with temperature valid! } } rcr, we get and upon annealing cooling ), most! An equation for the temperature of a wire due to current RTD conversion calculator determines the optimal value. { \text { cr } } rcr, we notice a copper resistance vs temperature calculator heat flux which can be found almost every! Pure range bar is calculated as: R = x 10^ / C. then the resistance will.. To calculate the temperature rises enough that the cooling rate matches the heating rate the... Be valid in this case use Google Adwords and what resistivity and conductivity units to use 299.7237569! Two physical quantities are also associated with them - electrical resistivity and conductivity units use! Case temperature: resistivity constant of the Tmax case temperature in a wire can the! The platinum resistance thermometers coefficients of resistance here and a wall test this out, copper is. Allow for different maximum operational temperatures 3.62- 299.7237569 how to calculate the temperature will.. And contamination ambiemt PCB thermal resistance formula is: R = L/A Where:: constant! Resistance will be then press the calculate button to get a feel for whether it is soft...
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